There are many myths floating around out there in the world of armed self-defense. Some are wishful thinking—the sound of whistling past the graveyard. Some are sincere beliefs that merely lack a foundation of truth. And some are generalities that may not apply in specific situations. Let’s look at just a few of those.


Glock 21

Sgt. Tim Gramins was grateful for every round in his 14-shot Glock 21, and in the two spare magazines on his person, after a gunfight that saw 54 shots exchanged in an estimated 56 seconds.

Alas, that’s not always the case. Sometimes you can’t do it with six, but you can end the deadly threat with, oh, seven…or eight…or 19…or maybe 33.

Back when the only state policemen carrying autoloaders were those in Illinois, with all the rest packing six-shooters, Illinois State Trooper Ken Kaas got into a shootout with a gunman armed with a semi-automatic shotgun. Each was using his vehicle, successfully, for cover. Midway through the firefight, the gunman suddenly stood up and left his cover, rushing toward. Trooper Kaaswith his shotgun up and a wolfish grin on his face. Ken shot him in the midriff and the criminal fell. It was over.

The suspect survived. In the “prison ward” of the hospital, guards overheard him talking with his appointed attorney. The exasperated lawyer asked him why he had left a position of safety to practically walk into the muzzle of the trooper’s waiting gun. “He fired six shots!” the recovering would-be cop-killer exclaimed. “I swear to God!

He fired all six!”

As carefully as he kept count, the criminal didn’t know that Illinois troopers carried Smith & Wesson 9mm semi-automatics. Ken had shot him down with the seventh round in his Model 39, most certainly averting his own death, since the trooper could never have reloaded an empty six-shot revolver fast enough to stop the deadly charge.

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Another Illinois trooper, Sergeant Les Davis, had a somewhat similar experience. He confronted an armed murderer on a wind-whipped snowy night, his S&W semi-auto against the killer’s pump-action shotgun. As the man rushed toward him, firing after Les’ sixth shot, Les fired twice more and the man pitched to the ground, dead. The sergeant had killed him with either the seventh or the eighth shot from his semi-auto.

In the late 1970s, I did a study of the shootings Illinois troopers had experienced during the first decade in which they’d had semi-autos instead of revolvers. I was able to identify 13 who had survived with those guns,when they probably would have died if they’d had the old six-guns. Most involved gun grabs where the troopers were saved because the bad guy couldn’t find the safety catch when he got control of the gun, or the trooper had pressed the magazine release during the struggle and deactivated the round in the chamber via the S&W Model 39’s magazine disconnector safety. But four of those saves were absolutely firepower based. Two were Kaas and Davis, cited above. The other two were Bob Kolowski and Lloyd Burchette. Ambushed by a two-gun outlaw biker, they fired more than 20 shots and achieved 13 or 14 hits before attempted murderer Wayne O’Brien slumped and died. Kolowski had reloaded during the blazing gun battle.

And what about armed citizens? Famed Los Angeles watch shop owner Lance Thomas was involved in multiple gun battles with armed robbers, winning every one. In one of those incidents, he had to fire 19 rounds before the last of his multiple opponents was out of the fight. Some bad guys cansoak up an unbelievable amount of lead, and the cunning ones run and use cover, making them harder to hit and requiring more shots to stop them. A municipal police sergeant in northern Illinois, Tim Gramins, comes to mind. He pulled over a heav-ily armed suspect who came out shooting, and the fight was on. In just under a minute, the perpetrator was finally down and dead. During that time, Gramins had fired 33 rounds from his Glock 21 pistol, reloaded as necessary and hit his opponent 14 times with 230-grain Gold Dot .45 bullets. Six of those hits were in what most of us would call “vital zones,” but he fight wasn’t over until Gramin finally had the opportunity for brain shots.During that fight the suspect had gone through two semi-automatic pistols himself and had fired 21 shots.


Gunfighting Myths

Never fall into a false sense of security and leave your handgun in the car since “it is never far away.”

That’s a convenient excuse for not carrying those things, but it’s unrealistic. In the case just mentioned, Sergeant Gramins began in his patrol car with a 12 gauge Remington 870 pump shotgun in an overhead rack and an AR-15 patrol rifle in the trunk, and it happened so fast that he was never able to deploy anything but the pistol on his hip and the magazines in his belt pouches.

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Perhaps the most famous gunfight of the 20th century was the shootout between suspects Michael Platt and William Matix and a squad of FBI agents in Dade County, Florida, on April 11, 1986. Platt, armed with a .357 revolver and a stolen Mini-14 rifle, killed two FBI agents and wounded five more, three permanently. He inflicted all of that trauma with what was on his person at the opening of the encounter.

Of the agents, the only one to employ a long gun was Ed Mireles, who had his Remington 870 in hand when the fight started. He emptied that shotgun even though severely wounded, and then at the end of the fight emptied his S&W Model 686 revolver, killing the two perpetrators. Supervisory Special Agent Gordon McNeill got off the first police shots of the fight, wounding Matix, but when he was wounded too badly to reload his empty revolver, he was unable to get back to his car for the shotgun before Platt fired another .223 round that crippled him for life.

The history of gunfighting is, when the fast and furious shooting starts, what we have on our person is all that we’re likely to have to fight with.


Shooting Crime Scene

The author takes notes at a shooting scene. Real-life encounters often diverge from popular expectations.

However sincerely some seem to believe that, it’s simply untrue. I’ve lost count of how many gunfights I’ve studied where the survivor said something like, “I was pointing the gun and firing as best I could and nothing was happening. Then I remembered to aim with my sights, and the other guy went down and it was over.” If you study the history of Wyatt Earp, you’ll find that he may well have killed 10 men with gunfire. He told his biographer Stuart Lake that—with one exception—he was always careful to align his “foresight” with his “back sight” and to squeeze, not jerk, the trigger. Wyatt Earp died at a ripe old age, never having sustained a gunshot wound himself.

During the violent epoch of the NYPD Stakeout Squad, the one member of the unit who killed more criminals in shootouts than his famous partner Jim Cirillo was Bill Allard, who Jim publicly credited with having saved his life in one particularly ugly encounter. Allard is on record as saying that in all but one of his shootings he was able to see his front sight so clearly that he could have counted how many grooves were machined into it.


hip shooting

John Strayer demonstrates hip-shooting prowess with a laser-sighted S&W J-frame

This is also over-simplistic and untrue. I just quoted two great gunfighters, Wyatt Earp and Bill Allard, who won many shootouts carefully aiming their guns. But notice that each had “one exception.”

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Wyatt Earp confronted Frank Stilwell, believed to be the murderer of his brother Morgan Earp, at the train station in Tucson, Arizona. Stilwell grabbed the barrel of Earp’s shotgun in an apparent attempt to disarm him. Earp levered the butt of the shotgun down and the muzzles up, jammed the twin barrels into Stilwell’s midsection and cut loose. The battle was over.

Bill Allard confronted an armed robber in a market and shouted the command, “Police! Drop your weapon!” The gunman swung on Allard, who shot the gunman in the chest with a blast of 00 buckshot from his 14-inch-barreled Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge shotgun. The man jerked back away from him, still wielding the gun, and Allard pumped another blast of 00 buckshot through his thorax. The gunman was still up and running. Allard’s partner (an officer other than Cirillo that day) then deliberately shot the suspect in the butt with his .38 Special revolver to break his pelvis and bring him down. The .38 did exactly that, and the suspect sprawled on his face, dropping his .32 semi-auto.

Allard lowered his shotgun to a low-ready position and slowly moved in on the downed man. Suddenly, the gunman snatched up the dropped pistol and tried to roll over and bring it to bear to kill Allard, who simply pulled his own trigger and hammered a third round of buckshot into the man’s chest. The suspect dropped the gun for the last time, and the fight was over.

“Jelly” Bryce, one of the greatest police gunfighters of the first half of the 20th century, was famous for his point-shooting skills. He killed many an armed criminal firing that way. Being able to fire and hit without the sights in a perfect sight picture is, without question, a useful survival skill. As with so many elements of gunfight survival, it’s not a question of this or that—it’s a mandate for this and that.


Ray Martinez

Ray Martinez, hero of the Texas Tower incident, credited armed citizens on the ground with stopping the murder spree.

I don’t mean to insult anyone, but this statement flunks the litmus test for cluelessness. By definition, if you were able to shoot him at that distance, he was able to shoot you at that distance.

RELATED: Disparity of Force – 5 Real-Life Self-Defense Cases

In 1867, Dave Tutt opened fire on Wild Bill Hickok across the town square in Springfield, Missouri. Hickok carefully aimed his .36 caliber Navy Colt two-handed and shot Tutt through the heart, killing him. The ruling: Justified.

Fast-forward about a century to 1966. Charles Whitman began a murder spree by firing his scoped rifle from atop a 330-foot clock tower in Austin, Texas, killing people hundreds of yards away. When police .38s and buckshot proved impotent at that distance, private citizens on the ground returned fire on Whitman with hunting rifles and target rifles. Whitman was forced to take cover and stop shooting. Armed citizen Allen Crum then led Austin policemen Houston McCoy and Ramiro Martinez to the top of the tower. Crum fired the first shot of the encounter (which may have broken Whitman’s planned ambush of the officers), and McCoy and Martinez shot Whitman dead. Martinez later publicly credited the armed citizens with stopping the killing. They became heroes, not defendants.

Fast-forward again to Brownwood, Texas, in 2012. A man went berserk and began killing his neighbors. When the first responding officer arrived, the killer pinned him down with a .30-30 rifle. Armed citizen Vic Stacy shot the gunman from some 65 yards away with a Colt Python .357 Magnum revolver, wounding him badly enough that the officer could take control and finish the fight, killing the killer. Far from becoming a defendant, the heroic citizen was presented with a fine rifle by appreciative Texas Governor Rick Perry.

Beware Absolutes

An article on “myths of gunfighting?” We could write books on the myths of gunfighting. The foregoing is presented because every life-threatening encounter is different, and to believe in overly simplistic things is to believe in myth instead of reality. If and when any of us is in a gunfight, it will most assuredly be reality, in all its various forms, by which we will live or die.

Related Stories: Compact Gunfighting | Self-Defense Tactics

Show Comments
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  • Jeff

    Great article, Mas, but I have to disagree with one statement. The North Hollywood bank robbery is probably the most famous shootout in the 20th century.

    • otasan56

      The great Miami shootout ranks way up there also.

    • I have seen footage of that, and if I were there, even with a 22 rifle, semi-auto, or not, it could have ended by shooting the ski mask. They are not body armor and a lowly .22 would have put the stop to the shooting if shot where there was no armor, and central nervous system (brain).

  • Kurt Keeler

    Punctuation and layout of text SUCKS! Too bad American journalism is following the society as a whole,,,, down the drain.

    • Mark

      Nice to see we still have grammar police. It must be nice to not have anything more important to say than to complain about the punctuation and layout. I wish I had no life, so I could do it, too.

      • Mark is a stupid fuck

        You say he has no life complaining about the layout, yet you complain about his comment… He has more of a life than you, moron.

        • Keep Honkin, I’m Reloading

          Awe look, Kurt Keeler has 2 Discuss accounts.

      • DewDog

        I rarely comment on things, butt here I’ll make an exception. When I read a story and it contains mispelled or words used in the wrong context it tells me that whomever wrote it takes little or no pride in their craft. They just threw something together to put out there. Makes me not consider the story as relevent as it could have been if time had been taken just reread and insure it flowed. Used to be a time when people took pride in doing their job well. Am not a “Grammar Cop” just a fan of things done right, not just for a pay check on word count in article.

        • No one important


        • Guessed

          Whoever wrote it.

        • Visolat


          “(It) (m)akes me”

          “taken (to) just”

          This place needs needs a better class of grammar Nazi.

          Must be an Obamanation voter.

      • Scratcheee

        It’s like seeing someone load a magazine with a bunch of mismatched cartridges. It might “work”, but it’s wrong and it calls into question everything else that person does.

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  • Dante Zanone

    If Les had only six shots and no more, there would be no more Les, no Les, no more.

    • You are thinking of a tombstone marking, which I think was in Tombstone AZ, that said “Here lies Lester Moore, 4 shots from a 44. No Les no more.”

      • Char Char Binks

        Thanks for explaining the joke, Vern.

  • ke4sk

    Detective Vicky Armel was shot and killed when a suspect opened fire on her and other
    officers in the parking lot of the Sully District Station on Stonecroft Boulevard in Chantilly, VA, Fairfax County. The suspect had carjacked a van moments earlier and drove into the police station’s back parking lot. The suspect exited the vehicle and opened fire with a hunting rifle on Master Police Officer Michael Garbarino, who was sitting in his patrol car, striking him five times. Despite being critically wounded, Officer Garbarino was able to broadcast a warning to other officers not to exit the rear of the police station.

    Detective Armel, who was also in the parking lot, immediately engaged the suspect and exchanged shots with the man. She was fatally wounded during the exchange when rounds from a .30-’06 hunting rifle defeated her body armor. Several officers who responded to the parking lot also exchanged shots with him, killing him. In addition to the .30-’06 hunting rifle, the suspect was armed with five handguns and a semi-auto AK.

    Master Police Officer Garbarino remained in critical condition for 9 days before succumbing to his wounds. Investigation revealed that the 18-year-old
    suspect had been arrested by Fairfax County police officers two weeks earlier
    for a carjacking he had committed in Montgomery County, Maryland.

    Detective Armel had served with the Fairfax County Police Department for 9 years and had previously served with the Fairfax County Sheriff’s Office for 8 years.

    Master Police Officer Garbarino had served with the Fairfax County Police Department for 23 years.

    • EM1 O

      god bless them, but goddamm the “suspect”.

    • dltaylor51

      Just the thought of having to go up against an 06 with a hand gun gives me shivers up my spine.

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  • bigsurmac

    One exception I’ve seen in action in 1949 at the close of a turkey shoot just north of Perkins, OK. The crowd and his own son badgered a stooped old man, maybe 5’4″ tall into putting on a “shooting demonstration.” Emptying two pistols within seconds into two cans thrown in a crossing pattern behind him– Francis ‘Pistol Pete” Eaton put five round into each can — drawing from hand-made holsters and shooting from the hip. Eaton was named Pistol Pete by the Osage about 1875, Became teen-age deputy U.S. Marshall for the Hanging Judge Isaac Parker serving in the Territories. He remained lawman in one capacity or another into the 1940s. Most of the famous gun marshalls were mostly pimps, gamblers and enforcers for the operators below the deadline in trail-head towns or in mining cwmps. Bill Til
    ghman, Heck Thomas,Chris Madsen, John Saxon of S,W, Arizona and Carl Hayden of Phoenix [Who achieved a round up of 95% of the wanted men in the Arizona Mountains,riding unarmed into their camps and talking them out.] — these men were the real article.

  • Jesse Brown

    Umm, I have a Glock 21 .45 ACP and it sure doesn’t hold 14 rounds.

    Edit: Ok, mine’s an older model with a 10 rd mag. I see the Gen 4 has a 13 rd Mag. So one in the chamber and a full mag equals 14. I’ll buy that.

    • A.C.

      It’s not older vs. newer, it’s Californicated vs. normal.

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  • scott will

    Its to bad no one at the north Hollywood robbery thought to just run them down.

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  • K. Martinez

    Anecdotal evidence is one of the weakest ways to support any claim.

    • Scratcheee

      I once saw an anecdote successfully used to prove a point.

  • capitan mcpatton

    The topic is myths of gunfighting so i agree with most of what ayoob says. But when he uses some shootouts as examples he often leaves out info that is important. Important to understand why many people choose a wheel gun with less bullets and a slower on avg reload. In the lance thomas story for exmple, he doesnt mention that lance limp wrists his semi auto in the middle of a gunfight. In another article about the same story he adds the total amount of shots shot and divides by the number of gunfights to support his point about firepower. He could have just said lance used revolvers successfully in the majority of his four gunfights without experiencing a life threatening malfunction during the mostcritical part of a gunfight. Same happens with other examples like newhall and others where if you read carefully semi autos jam or are prone to cause human error like in the blair house shootout. I wonder how much working for magazines can influence what an author writes and how he writes. Ayoob is very knowledgeable tho. And l often read his articles.

  • Andre Gabriel

    My only issue with this thinking is that these are mostly still law enforcement officers and agents response to a shooting incident that turns into a gun fight. This is not the real representation of what happens in a civilian self defense shooting. Which doesn’t often turn into a actual gun fight. The responsibility, techniques and rules of engagement for shooting scenario for LEO’s, military, and civilians are not quite the same.

  • Dayne Choate

    Mas: Good stuff – Thanks.

    Also re amazing long distance pistol shots, pls Google Austin Texas Thanksgiving Shooter for more on this incident. One excerpt:

    “For what it’s worth, Johnson’s shot was a pretty remarkable one:

    Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo said he was loading up horses early Friday morning when he heard the gunshots, and while holding two horses with one hand he fired at McQuilliams with his free hand hitting him in the heart.

    Friday afternoon, Acevedo praised Johnson’s quick actions saying “For a guy to keep his composure, holding two horses with one hand and taking a one hand shot with the other hand just says a lot about the training and professionalism of our police department.”

    Johnson fired once, from over 300 feet away.” – See more at:

  • Floyd D Barber

    An old story. But shows why you must be prepared.

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  • Random Passenger

    Cops shoot too many innocent people with the 56 bullets they carry. I’d let t hem have only 1, just like Barney Fife.

  • Cellec

    So, if you could only own one…

    Heckler & Koch 45
    Smith & Wesson M&P RP8
    9mm Glock (#19?)
    Smith & Wesson “Governor”

    …which would it be?

    Going by this article probably the Glock or the H&K.

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  • USMC_Daddy

    Wasn’t ROE for LAPD. They were already too PC.

  • The Real Farmer

    I’ll blow any MF’s head open with my 5 shot LCR. I’m an ild man, if they put me down so be it, i’ll die sling lead.

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  • dltaylor51

    I believe in the school of hard knocks and first punch wins,I carry a single action 45 Colt peacemaker and or a 2 3/4” S&W 29 double action 44 mag.I figured out a long time ago that there just isn’t a perfect self defense gun so i carry what I’m good with and what i can get into play with no thinking about it and the revolver just works for me.If i knew in advance that i was going to be attacked i would certainly show up with one of my high cap auto’s,maybe even my AR 15 but how often to you get warned in advance about being attacked?

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